(no subject)

[oakenguy]

I've been thinking a lot about Koko the Gorilla.

This is inspired by a great thread over at Internet Infidels, at http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=94556 --one of Koko's handlers logged on during a discussion of Koko's tooth operation, and has stayed around to answer questions.

I'm not sure which fact I like most:

*She makes jokes. When a handler asked her how she slept after the operation, she replied "On floor with blanket" and gave a huge laugh.

*When she was asked what she thought God looked like, she said "Female gorilla with makeup and lipstick".

*Since she comprehends about 2000 English words, she's quite capable of watching movies and following plotlines. Right now her favorites are Pretty Woman and Good Boy. I'd MUCH rather read a movie review from Koko than another one from David Brudnoy or Richard Corliss.

Comments

[simply-juniper.livejournal.com]

I wonder what she'd think of Operation Dumbo or George of the Jungle

[kissedbythegods.livejournal.com]

Koko fascinates me. Honestly, that gorilla needs more media attention.

[akycha.livejournal.com]

This is so wonderful.

Especially her idea of God, for some reason.

Other Rose

[bohostar.livejournal.com]

Right on!

[frla.livejournal.com]

man oak-ie
you are officially my god for the next few moments,..
seriously,
I feel a deep seated love for you for linking this.

A gorilla telling jokes resonates with the core of so many of the things I believe and lecture on.

Thank you man.

(also always just loved koko)

KK!

;)

[dianasblackrose.livejournal.com]

that's cute.

A planet where apes evolve from men!?!?

[syreene.livejournal.com]

Wow...a gorilla with a sense of humor. :)

I should read more about this, as it's incredibly cool to think about the connection between us and the apes. Thanks!

[ex-twilosta.livejournal.com]

isnt Koko the one they gave the kitten to a while ago? Gorillas are so fun. At the DC zoo they give them popcorn and the gorillas sit watching the humans watch them, its like we are the zoo animals they are observing :)

[oakenguy.livejournal.com]

She's had two cats, first All Ball (who died while a kitten, and it's still an upsetting memory for her) and then Mike, who was around for 18 years before passing away recently.

And yah, the more I learn, the more fascinated I get.

[anotherjen.livejournal.com]

I'm also a Koko fan. I donated $25 to them just so I could see the DVD of Koko hanging out with Robin Williams.

You want the latest copy of "Gorilla" magazine from the Koko people? It's currently sitting on the sidewalk outside my house in a box marked "FREE" with other stuff.

[sumimasen-kiyo.livejournal.com]

Aboslutely. That would be great too if we could get it printed in the NY Times or some such. :P

[ex-twilosta.livejournal.com]

I found this there is a really cute clip if you have quicktime
the first is koko playing with Moe a visiting kitty and the second is her friend Michael the only other Gorilla to learn to sign, watching them both sign and sip their drinks out of cups with straws makes them look uncannily human

http://ali.apple.com/ali_sites/ali/exhibits/1000790/Koko_and_Friends.html

[wanderingrogue.livejournal.com]

Biff's actually a long standing member of our little community over at II. But I had no idea that he was one of Koko's people until that thread. I think my favorite part was the gorilla jokes. That shows an ability to understand the subtle nuances of language. Really quite remarkable. I know that the apes are our closest relatives, but it never fails to amaze me how alike we are.

The sad part is the reaction they've gotten from fundies over Koko. Who knew that just the idea of other animals using language effectively would threaten them so much?

[pinkslavekitten.livejournal.com]

She treated both cats as her babies and they bonded really well with Koko! If I am correct I believe she even bottle fed Ball because he/she was rather young when taken from it's mother.

[akycha.livejournal.com]

The idea of animals using language effectively threatens linguists, too. Every time more research comes out showing that our near relatives are using language-- I'm sorry, a sign system-- effectively, they set the bar on "what language is" higher.

Last I heard, they were having to redefine what "syntax" is, and then I gave up following the debates in disgust.

Other Rose

Raising Standards

[(Anonymous)]

Not only language. Tool use has been an ever-rising standard as they find species from chimps to crows making and using various tools. There is also self-recognition. Dolphins probably self-recognize (based on most recent and "best" study), but they completetly lack the portion of the brain that is unqiue to the higher primates, the only other self-recognizer. Result: they must not self recognize!

From an ethical standpoint putting sentience on a slope is really dangerous. If some of the very high-end gorillas, chips, etc are just bordering into sentience (and thus deserving of lots of extra rights for ethical reasons), does that mean some brain-damaged or severely retarded humans are not sentient, and thus not deserving of those rights? Many people don't want to deal with this issue (even if they have not thought it through sufficiently to express this problem explicitely), and thus want to stick to the clear humans-animals dichotomy.

Stephen in NZ

Re: Raising Standards

[aberdeen.livejournal.com]

I suspect that the way it ought to work is by species, rather than by individual. If we can say that some Gorillas are sentient, then Gorillas as a species are sentient. If some humans are sentient, humans as a species are sentient. But, I don't expect this to be dealt with as a legal issue anytime soon.

[foresthouse.livejournal.com]

i had the book Koko's Kitten when I was a kid!

[haycee.livejournal.com]

Wow that's interesting! That's one smart gorilla!